Mindset Shifts for Leaders: Finding Your Inner Wisdom with Jenny Jonte and Michelle Howe

Mindset shifts for leaders. Finding Your Inner Wisdom With Jenny Jonty and Michelle Howe, welcome to Biz Bites for Thought Leaders. In today’s panel discussion, we introduce two people who have never met before, and we’re gonna explore how mindset shifts can transform your leadership approach. You’ll discover why trusting your inner wisdom is essential for authentic leadership.

How to balance. Masculine and feminine energies in business and practical strategies to reconnect with your true self. This is a very special episode of Biz Bites for Thought Leaders. We have two people who bring a lot to the table A, a very interesting intersection and shared discussion with some great insights and creating all about creating success from the inside out.

So let’s get into this episode.

Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Biz Bites for Thought Leaders and we’re doing another panel show today. Lucky enough to have Jenny and Michelle joining us. Welcome both of you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Love that little bit of harmony To start off with, what we should tell everyone that’s listening in today is that Jenny and Michelle only met each other a few moments ago and we haven’t done any official introductions.

We’re gonna do that in a minute, and I think that’s part of the fun of this, is bringing people together. That don’t know each other and having an interesting conversation that I have no doubt is going to benefit everyone listening in today because of their background. Firstly, why don’t we kick off with you, Michelle, do you wanna introduce yourself to everyone?

Sure. My name is Michelle Hower. I’m from Syracuse, New York. I’m a guide. I’m a mentor. I’m the founder of Empath Evolution. What I do is I teach, I speak and I guide. I really am trying to bring a new level of consciousness around healing, sensitivity, our roles, so we can just step into something a little bit stronger, success from the inside out as opposed to the superficiality that really.

Is rather rampant for all of us. Let’s see who we really are. And it’s really an inner journey. So that’s what I help people step into if they like me, like I was a business professional, I am a business professional, I’m the founder, but I really wasn’t thinking energetic sensitivity at all till I was 40.

So that’s. Where I step in and I’m gonna use my voice. I do use my voice to help bring awareness of that. And then slowly but surely certain people will step forward more into it for the journey. I see it as a wisdom journey, truly. But yeah, that’s what I do.

Lovely. Love that. What about you, Jenny?

Yeah, so really aligned actually. So my name’s Jenny Ante and I’m the founder of Eliminate Impossible, and I am a mindset and prosperity coach. So I primarily work with entrepreneurs or business owners who are trying to scale, but really it’s. It was so similar working from the inside out and essentially helping people get whatever they want to be, do, or have by changing the way that they think.

I love that. It’s, what was really interesting, so I did a little bit of quick research beforehand as you do when you’re coming into these shows. And what was interesting to me was there were a couple of quotes. That were on the top of your website. So we had one which is trust your wisdom.

And we also had to dream the impossible dream to reach the unreachable start, which I love one of my all time favorite songs. It’s. It’s amazing how bringing two people together who, to, to a degree was random. But how aligned both of you are in many respects, but also how I think this idea of mindset.

Of needing mentoring for business leaders has, I think, really come to the fore in recent times. I think it’s going to be needed more and more, wouldn’t you say Jenny?

Oh, absolutely. I know even for myself when I first started, because I made a career shift, I went from being a physical therapist for 15 years to becoming a coach.

And so at first I thought I could just, through sheer will like just do everything and I, I got this all on my own and just was not making any headway until I, relented and had my own coach or mentor to help me. Through the process helped me through my own blocks that I was having and my mindset and all these places that I didn’t even know were there before I jumped in, and so it helped me to make that leap.

I just know that we all need that individual guidance because we can read all the books, we can get all this head knowledge, but in order to actually implement and be able to then see that in our everyday life and see the change coming from within, we really need somebody guiding us through that.

And I think you hit on an important point there as well.

We all need a coach. I think coaches need coaches as well. I think if you absolutely, if you’ve got no one acting in that role, then I think that’s challenging for people who might want to come and learn from you because. You need to know that people are being guided. It’s a bit like most professionals, psychologists generally go and see another psychologist to to have as a mentor as well.

Is that the same for you, Michelle?

I think it’s important for us to grow. I think we are growing regardless of where we are. And as far as having my own coach, I’ve had them formal and non-formal. They’ve been part of my evolution and I, it is important, if you wanna grow, if you wanna move beyond, I have to say, looking around, it’s not a given that people really wanna shift or change or they seem to be a lot of them very accustomed to where they’re at until something really.

Intense and then they’re like, no, this needs to change. Until they can’t handle it anymore then they’ll look for something different. They’ll be open to that. But by nature, I think a lot of us are quite stubborn. And we don’t really know there’s a problem until there’s a problem.

Yes.

Oh yes, that is. And and that’s the thing, isn’t it too that you want people to be reacting in advance. You don’t want them to be in the last moment going, oh my goodness, this is all collapsing. I need to change.

But that’s a shift in people’s mindsets, isn’t it?

How do you actually start that process of making people even think about the need to change?

It’s a good question. It’s a good question. It’s a great question. I was actually reflecting on this just last week. I was thinking about that and even in my own journey, like I hit that sort of rock bottom for myself.

It was just at this point where things were collapsing around me. I was at just, a horrible position and it took. That’s like extreme down in order for me to realize that I needed to make a change. And that’s when I started my own personal journey, even before becoming a coach. So unfortunately, I think sometimes we do need that knock on the head and it needs to come a little harder than we would like.

We did the same thing in medicine too. Working as a physical therapist, we would love if we could do more preventative care, but we’re so reactive it feels as a society.

Yeah. Michelle, is that the same for you?

I try. We all try, right? We go through cycles and sometimes everything is nice and smooth, and then other times, no, we’re getting kicked.

We need to do something different. So we’ve. It starts with us, and that’s the thing with every client that I have every new venture that I do, I’m not just growing a little. I’m growing a lot. So it’s not like a one way street. It’s just a lot easier when you’re the third person or the second person helping if you’ve been through it or you’ve been close to what that is.

If you’re at a distance from who that person is, you can see what’s happening a little bit easier than that person that’s steeped in that reality. Very true. For me, it’s vibra vibrational embodiment. Who do I really want to be coaching? Me? Somebody that can shift, that I allow to shift, that has the skills to help me shift that.

I’m gonna listen to it’s not a given that I’m gonna listen to anybody who thinks they’re gonna coach me because I’ve gotten so further along in my journey that I need somebody that’s two steps ahead of me. In some ways, maybe not way ahead of me, but, and someone that I can relate with enough that I’m gonna listen to.

So it’s not, we’re all quite individualistic here. Who is a good fit for us? Who is not? And our perception of what something is or isn’t. Yeah,

I think you make a good point there. I think it’s how do you actually choose who is the right person to coach you and indeed what sort of coach you might need.

Because clearly you both have slightly different approaches. But how does one choose if one’s sitting here enlisting and going, Ooh, how do I

choose,

literally choosing between the two of you? But it’s like, how do you actually make the choice. As to working out for yourself.

What is the right kind of. Match going to be, what do you actually need? And Jenny, is there a some key that you have for,

I know I wish there was, but I feel like you have to develop your intuition and be able to feel that alignment. ’cause I know that I’ve listened to, myself, I listen to lots of other podcasts.

I listen to other people’s trainings and teachings and you can just. You get a sense, like you were saying, that their vibration, their energy, like some people are gonna really click and you’ll be like, yes I really resonate with this. This is. This sounds like what I need. This feels like truth to me and what my soul feels like it needs.

And then you can pursue that direction. And then there’s other people I listen to I appreciate your insight, but I can tell this is not really aligning with me. Like this is not a person that I would necessarily want to work with. I love what they’re doing. I love what they’re sharing, but it’s just not gonna be the right fit.

So I think you really have to develop that intuition for yourself because. There are so many people out there, and there’s the right person for everybody, but you’ve gotta be able to weed through it all.

Yeah. Michelle I’m sure that resonates with you because I know empathy is a big part of what you teach.

It’s empathy. It’s people that are, we are all feeling things and a lot of ways we’re all empathic, but some of us have a little bit more. Cognizance awareness depth, that the energies around us, the environments around us will impact us more. And it’s what we’re carrying. I’ve gone way deep into the healer, mysticism, intuitive side of everything.

And for me, it’s trusting that things are coming. It’s asking for what you want, but it’s also. Is this vibration, is this person, because, everyone’s steeped in their own reality. Everyone’s steeped in their own mental story of what they think everything is.

Is this person gonna help me step forward more fully in the direction that I want?

And it, to me, it’s always a feeling and I like alignment. It’s like a key and you know it, it’s a yes. It’s a clear yes.

Whereas when it’s a, maybe it’s i’m like, that’s a done for

that gut feeling. Yeah. You can tell it doesn’t feels off, like just doesn’t feel right. Yeah.

It’s not a hundred percent, it’s not the key that’s gonna turn it, but sometimes, we might be in that place where we’re really looking for something that’s going to fit and it’s, the timing is just so that, we tried this person out, we went in this direction.

I believe everything is meant to be every, there’s a lesson in everything. But hopefully you cut your losses quicker rather than later if something is not the right fit for you.

And that’s an interesting point, ’cause I’ve had that myself where

When do you make that decision where someone might’ve been the right person for you for a period of time, but letting go?

Of that person can sometimes be a difficult one because you have built a relationship and for whatever reason you feel as though it’s changed. And I had that, recently where it’s someone that I had met originally through a course many years ago, then came on and became my coach for a number of years.

But we just reached a point where. We were going in different directions and I realized that, and I, I personally probably ha hung on a little bit too long at that point before I moved on to someone else. It is a difficult decision and on both sides of the fence, I imagine, Jenny, how do you recognize when something is been right and then it goes wrong?

Do you recognize that as on a coaching side as well?

Yes. I think that’s an area. I laugh because it’s. Something for, most of my life until just really recently in the last couple years, I struggled with because I would hold on too long out of this fear that I was gonna, hurt the other person in some way or another.

So I’m like, I’ll just keep doing it. I’ll just keep going. It’s gonna be fine and not being true to myself. Whereas like my body’s trying to tell me it’s. Feeling anxious or it’s just not feeling good, but I’m not listening to it. So I think honoring yourself and it’s respect for both you and the other person, because it doesn’t have to be done in a terrible way.

It’s not you stop working with that coach and I’m never gonna speak to you again. So it’s just in this form, our relationship is gonna. Here, and we’re gonna just shift it into something different. So just finding a way that, again, you have to stay with that alignment. And if you can get more and more in tune with your body, I think our bodies really tell us exactly what we should or shouldn’t be doing.

But most of the time. I would always just tell it to be quiet. I’m like, no, I don’t. I don’t think that’s right. I’m not listening to you. This must be exactly. I was a little stubborn, so I’ve gotten a lot better at listening to my body and honoring it and just figuring out what it’s trying to tell me to do.

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It’s just in this form. Our relationship is gonna end here and we’re gonna just shift it into something different.

So just finding a way that, again, you have to stay with that alignment and. If you can get more and more in tune with your body, I think our bodies really tell us exactly what we should or shouldn’t be doing. But most of the time I would always just tell it to be quiet. I’m like, no, I don’t. I don’t think that’s right.

I’m not listening to you. This must be exactly. I was a little stubborn, so I’ve gotten a lot better at listening to my body and honoring it, and just figuring out what it’s trying to tell me to do.

It’s huge. Yeah.

Yeah. And it is paying attention to that. It’s interesting too because as business leaders, there are times when we have to make a decision, not just around a coach, but around clients.

Sometimes the client doesn’t fit. And as you were saying that Jenny, I, definitely recollect one or two clients where I knew it was going to end. And. Left the decision to them rather than probably having the mutual conversation, which is a difficult one to have at times. Fortunately we, left on a very friendly terms, but it was just it.

The time had been served, we did as much as we could together, and it was time for them to seek out something else where they wanted to go. And equally time for me to focus my energy on on different areas as well. And, that whole idea of, sacking a client is a challenging one.

I I’ll tell you this, Michelle, when I that I remember someone I know telling me many years ago about doing this, and they actually did, it was it was like a breakup. He even described it like that. He took them person to lunch and, see the whole, it’s not you, it’s me, scenario and, and the, and in part and parted ways. So a very interesting very interesting approach. And but it is a difficult thing.

It is multi-layered. I’m just thinking of one client in particular. You always start off thinking and with goals and, but then things can get a little blurry.

Exactly. Where are we going? Exactly. What are we working on? And it gets a little too, comfortable where you, you lose those boundaries over and that momentum of where you’re going because, in the middle of all this life is happening. That’s some of the hardest lessons I’ve learned is that, you, I’ve done different programs and they’re like, rushing, you need to go.

And I’m like. Oh my God. Are you trying, I’m doing a sprint here. This is supposed to be something that, you know, and I’m gonna fail at this sprint because this is just totally disrupting my life. 360 degrees. It’s also gauging how much do I have to commit to this? Some people want, so much of you when you’re working with them, that’s too much. So trying to gauge how does this work with their life and help them continue that momentum and are they listening and are they a good client and are they, is this a good match? Are, do they need something else? Yeah. And those are di difficult conversations, but important conversations as well.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I think you make an important point as well that, we are constantly evolving. We are learning more ourselves and for lots of reasons we may shift in our business or in our thinking. And realigning yeah, with whoever you are working with is an important.

Thing to be thinking about and doing all the time, because I guess the natural thing as far as businesses are concerned is to keep thinking about who’s the next person we can bring on board, which means that you are not always thinking about as much as the people that currently are on board and whether

all

movement needs that you’re no longer aligned.

Yep. The vision. The vision, how to fit into it. Excellent point. That’s a great point.

Tell me both of you I’m intrigued as to how your businesses have shifted, what’s the journey like? I starting with you, Jenny. What’s the journey been like since you started this and you look back on some of the people that you may have been working with to where.

The people you want to be working with now, how much has that shifted for you?

A lot. Because I think in the beginning I just wanted anybody and anybody, right? I didn’t have a lot of a like filtering system to decide who is gonna be the best aligned so that we can have the best outcomes, we can have the best, situation, working through everything.

And so definitely took on people that. Probably shouldn’t have, but as I’ve, become. More aware and understanding more and more of the type of people that I actually want to work with. People who, as you mentioned before, are ready and willing to change. They’re excited to grow. They are want to get to the next level or 10 levels above.

So starting to weed out and filter people who are gonna be a better fit ahead of time, even before taking a call or, using any of my time. So again, just honoring my own time a little bit better throughout this process as I’ve come more and more aligned with what it is that I wanna do and who I wanna serve.

What about you? For you, Michelle?

It has changed a lot. And as much as I, I’ve always wanted to help everybody who was empathic and someone actually said to me and they don’t even have to know they’re empathic. Most people don’t even know the word. They don’t know what this means, but nailing it down more to that high achiever, the person who really is aware and wants to move forward and will take action there’s so much.

There’s so many different types of people in the world, and I will do best with that kind of a person because I’m pretty much like that myself, so I’m like, okay, a former version of me who is struggling a bit with where they’re going and who they are. Who they are, the sensitivity.

What does sensitivity actually mean for them and their life? How does it, how’s it impacting their relationships? How does it show up? So it’s helping someone evolve to the next best version so they feel good every day in their skin. Because a lot of people that are empathic a, they’re overwhelmed. They are giving too much all the time.

And, I can talk to that because that’s always been me and we’re doing a lot. And when you we’re in this do do environment, it can be very draining. And then, depending on who you have in your life, there’s another source of drainage. So it’s, it really is an inner journey.

All of it. See, I see everybody evolving, but there are different stages of the game. And they don’t necessarily know there’s another layer and then another layer after that. But if you are sensitive to energy, you’re gonna recognize when something expands you and makes you feel better. And when something is really

it’s

just not ideal for you to be in that space.

I don’t know. I wish there was a definitive like. This is where everybody’s at, but it’s, we’re all quite individual when you put us quite individual.

Yeah. You mean to say some of those pop quizzes we see coming up in our feeds don’t actually work.

They tell us bare bone, superficial stuff, it’s like astrology.

It’s they’re good to a certain degree. What is it? The DISC method? They’re good to a certain degree, but at the end of the day. We need to be leading based on feeling because what’s gonna, if we don’t lead based on that, we’re leading based on logic. And logic can throw us in so many different directions, it doesn’t care how we feel.

It’s just gonna be logical. For me, the way I feel is like amp amplified, threefold. It’s very important. And if I don’t have the right fit, the right rhythm of what I’m doing. I have to be aware of where I use my energy. I guess that’s the most important part about being an empath, being empathic, because it’s I can totally become deflated, become defeated, go into burnout.

Do you know what I mean? All these things that society tells us our success and what we need to do versus what internally, what do we need to do? What is next?

Yeah, I can see you nodding there as well, Jenny. That’s it’s so relatable what Michelle’s saying there, isn’t it? It’s just I think we all. Would probably be, I think everyone listening in is probably nodding their head to some degree to that.

Yes. Yeah. So we do, we, we push. So a lot of what I do as well is to try to help bring the feminine energy with the masculine, right? We can’t just have all action, all due, push hard, strive hard.

Work yourself to death because that just doesn’t work. So yes, you have to get the energy alignment and all of those parts before you take the action and then you actually don’t have to do as much action. It’s beautiful.

If we could. And I speak from my own ex. If we could just settle into a more streamlined, relaxed approach instead of the straight line, this is where I’m going, this is where I am.

Boom boom. Yeah. I have a lot of male energy in me, but I have a lot of female too, so females like, stop it. We’re not doing it anymore. I’m not gonna go along with your show.

No. Yeah. A lot of deconditioning that has had Yeah. Had to happen. Yeah. Sure.

Program. It’s interesting you talk about alignment as well because we’ve, a lot of people talk about this kind of work-life balance, and I think balance is the wrong word.

Alignment with where you need to be at any given point and recognizing that’s a. Challenge, Jenny. It’s just, it’s, and it’s an everyday challenge for particularly for people who are, business leaders and they are being pushed to keep, as Michelle was saying, go more, more, more all the time.

More is not always better. No, it’s just more, more to deal with. But I think if we could just simplify the recipe, I guess I’m speaking to myself, simplify this recipe, Michelle, because you know when you think, when you are a creative person, entrepreneur, you think big, like you really wanna make a big, whether it’s a lot of money, but in my case, it’s.

Let’s do some big things. Yeah. Let’s get this message out there, right? Or what, solopreneur or small business has to really be cognizant of the energy that they use to do what, because then all of a sudden you become a business like me. I’m like, oh my gosh, I need an operational manager.

Like somebody needs to do their job because all of a sudden it’s all these details. Of things that I’m more big picture thinker, planner, like messaging. But I guess it just tells you why you need different kinds of people on your team. Yeah. Because otherwise you just won’t work very well.

Yeah.

Somebody to delegate the administrative tasks that are not Yeah. Worth your energy.

You’re not gonna, not, there’s certain things I’m not na, naturally good at, but then there’s a problem, Anthony, when you’re really good at a lot of things, I’m like, the problem,

It’s and it’s the, and it’s the hardest thing, right?

As a business leader. Is to let go, because sometimes you might be better than the person that you are hiring at a certain thing, but it’s, but you need to let go of it, and that’s, that’s a challenge. And it’s equally a challenge when you try and bring it back. I’ve experienced that in recent times.

I’ve had someone working with me who has just left, so I’ve had to. Res, assume all of those responsibilities in the short term. And two days in, it’s killing me. So it’s and it’s not that I can’t do it, and it’s not that I’m not good at doing it, it’s just that it’s incredibly time consuming and you realize how much it takes you away from what you really love doing.

And I think that’s goes back to that alignment, doesn’t it, Jenny?

Oh, absolutely. Yes. This is something I’ve I have recently also discovered, I’m starting to dive into, I don’t know if this aligns at all with what you do, Michelle, but with human design and I’ve come to understand, I am a projector and I am not here to do the work.

I am here to guide and and to delegate and to give all the little tasks to other people. And I think even just in our family life and all of the parts I used to really hold on tight and want to control everything. And so for me, being able to just release and like you said, focus on the things that I really love that.

Are aligned with my true self and my goal and my purpose and what I’m trying to do and give, handoff some of the other things. But yeah, I was having that thought last week too. So I was looking at some of the things that I’ve been delegating. I’m like, do I like how this. Mostly

it’s a challenge.

No the team, Anthony, a couple times you’re like getting, letting go let, it’s almost yeah, you need to have a master class on letting go and what does that look like? And how do you actually do it? I think there’s a reason why we hold tight, because we’re used to doing it.

We want it a certain way. There’s that control aspect.

And, finding the right people to do certain things would like, would. Alleviate that issue. Yeah. Having that confidence in them. Yeah.

I wanna come back to that point in a minute, but I just wanted to also ask you both about this kind of this concept that, that leads to where you were just talking is that a lot of businesses spend a lot of time teaching people how to do stuff, whether that’s internally or whether it’s externally with clients.

And it’s like, why are you telling people how to do stuff they want? They’re either coming to you to do the stuff. Or you’re hiring someone to do the stuff. You don’t need to spend a lot of time teaching them how to and I think we get lost in that a lot of the time, don’t we?

That is an intellectual landmine.

You, you wanna give some something to do? In my last program, she went crazy answering these questions. I’m like, oh my God. She’s in her head the whole way. So changing her presentation and. Do I have to go in there and do surgery on your mind? You need to stop. I’m like, this approach isn’t really working.

Doesn’t very well because she’s looking forward to dot every I and cross every t and it should result in two plus two equals four. And this is how, no, transformation is a very fluid letting go is even more fluid than that. It’s not, you said holding on tight. Jenny, which I loved. I’m like, yeah,

Yes.

It’s too tight. You can tell when you’re holding on too tight.

You just always bring it up, always talk about it. You’re still figuring it out. So sometimes being like a seeker. I am, I need to fit. I’ve been there and I still can be there. I need to know why this, yeah. Like I will spend time and I’ve learned from this a lot.

So it’s kind of part of my process is why is this happening? What am I learning? What’s the next thing you know? It’s part of going deeper. And being very empathic, I need to understand sometimes asking questions aloud has helped me to get answers to things that I feel, but I don’t quite understand what I’m feeling.

Or, here’s this human dynamic with a client. Or they’re trying, like learning each step of the way because everybody’s mind is completely different. Try to change somebody’s mind. Who’s strong-willed? You can do it. You can softly, gently try to sculpt something in there if they let you, but the more strong will they are, the more they hold on really tight.

It’s that match. You have to make that match. And with the right person, then they’ll really listen to you. But if you are, if you don’t have the keys to that mind of theirs, they’re not gonna listen to a thing you said. It’s just information. As opposed to shifting the way you present the way you feel.

So the emotional stuff, the letting go is really, I can logically say, let go, but if someone’s very fixated and wanting and knowing everything they’re not going to.

That’s true, and that comes back to the guiding, right? You can only do so much, and in the end, the person has to be able to do it for themselves.

So they have to be ready and willing to make that change.

Yeah. Timing. Yes.

And I can’t tell you how long for, like 10 years of doing. Searching personal development and growth and all of the self-help, everything that I could find. And like I knew so much on a conscious level and I thought I knew stuff, but again, it wasn’t until I had help understanding how to implement it into my subconscious mind, how to actually make the internal changes.

Until then, I started to see things reflecting on the outside of the changes I was making inside. Before that, it was all very superficial. It was just in the conscious mind.

Yeah, it’s, it is a challenge, isn’t it? Because there’s one thing about sitting and listening in whatever environment you’re in and going, yeah, I should do that, and another thing to actually be able to do it.

And it’s not about skills. It’s not about access to resources. It’s about mindset.

It’s about my Yes. Mind. Having the bandwidth and the space in your life to handle, like, how many things can you actually handle at one time?

Change within yourself. Your focus, say your focus is physical, but then there’s bus, like e, everything seems to.

A certain amount of you, and sometimes in order to achieve a certain goal, you need to really strap yourself down and focus in on that goal specifically to get that done. So you know, your idea and balance per Yes. Balance is. A fallacy. We do not at any given point in time, have everything in balance if there is such a thing, it is the balance. If there was anything, it’d be centered feeling inside of you that you are grounded in, you’re going in the right direction. If they calmness, you’re centered. That’s balance. But that at any given point in time, my life is in balance. No, I did a lot of traveling this year.

That threw me off. That was really enjoyable, but it threw everything off the kilter, right? As far as, so it’s, you wanna be able to glide through life, and I love the fact that. It’s never a done deal. I have not arrived where everything is in perfect harmony without something new that I’m learning.

But it would be nice if it was like just completely smooth. That’s my goal, just a completely smooth life. No hangups.

Yes. I dunno

if that exists. There’s no, there’s always something

else coming up, isn’t there? And that’s the, that’s reality. There’s it’s out of our control. And a personal, and a professional level. We haven’t got too much time to touch on this, but we live in an age where there’s so much technology coming in and that’s putting a lot of pressure on.

On change as well, isn’t it? And in many respects, it’s pushing people to the middle and that, what you spoke about at the beginning of inactivity and just happy where they are. And suddenly there’s more conformity because of the technology and things that exist. So actually the way to stand out is to be more human.

And that’s a hard thing to extract, isn’t it, Jenny? It’s like how do you actually rip that out and get people to put themselves in the fore and really want to be a leader?

That is a, I love that insight. That is very interesting. I think you’re absolutely right and especially as we see more and more AI and all of these other things, we are losing that humanistic quality to what we do.

And I think it can be in so many different levels, like even just. The posts that you do and all of these different areas, like making sure that you are, you’re showing yourself as a human. Yeah. And making those connections on a much different level. And I think that is. We’re almost starving for that at this point.

Like I love that we have this ability to be in all these different places and connect, doing this, but doing things in person, I think has such an even bigger impact because that energy, you can feel so much stronger in my opinion, when you are in the same room as a person or in proximity to them, and this is a great medium.

I don’t think it should completely replace Yeah. Being able to do things, with actual people

and it won’t it doesn’t, it could never it’s just a very convenient way of getting the message out into the world and getting information. Sharing information. Really we’re at warp speed right now with the amount of information that is coming through.

YouTube, huge amount. The influencers out there are sharing, which is a positive because the information’s getting through, but it’s also like information overload can

be overwhelming. I’m like.

It is actually a good thing that we are diving deeper into things, but sometimes I think there’s so much drama around everything and it becomes its own little silo of too much of this, like what I tell you, everybody’s brain and their reality is completely different.

So it, it is a pleasure to follow certain people. ’cause I get the benefit of their deep dives into certain areas.

Yeah.

Yeah. I look and I think just as we start to wrap things up, I wanted to ask you both a couple of questions, and the first one being, in this kind of day and age, as we were just talking about with technology coming to the fore and the need to extract, our human element and creativity and bring that to the fore, what are some tips that you might have for people, the way people should be.

Reexamining thinking or doing what? What can people what can make people change the way they might be going about things in this day and age? What are the shifts in mindset or keys to getting themselves into a position where they recognize that they need to do that? And I can I throw you in the deep end, Michelle?

So you’re talking about the human element, the creativity with all the tech. Turn off the tack. You can turn off the tech right and go and just spend some time just being, exploring reading. Like it is just, you don’t need to be busy 24 7. The way that you feel on the inside is more important than anything on the outside.

Are you being true to yourself, to your potential, to what you want in life? Stop following. The typical things, and instead see the benefit of just listening quietly. What do you want? What is next for you? It’s almost like you’re slowing down the pace of your life by slowing down the way that you speak, the way that you engage, the way your calendar looks like you’re slowing everything down.

Where you can actually notice the space around you. You don’t need this train to go 80 miles an hour. You wanna be able to see the scenery, right? So you’ve gotta slow things down and not, be worried or be afraid that you’re missing something. And it’s that like monkey on your back.

That’s no, you need to do this. No. You like, no you don’t. No, you don’t. A lot of things are just meant to happen or not meant to happen, and they’re gonna happen whether you work, you’re gonna probably exhaust yourself if you’re working really hard, thinking all that hard work is gonna give you this because throughout my 10 years of having a path evolution, nothing has ever exactly turned out the way I thought it was going to turn out.

Has always been like I just thought, on a piece of paper, X plus X equals this, but not, that’s not the way it works. A lot of times if you showcase an imperfect version of yourself and you have the right team around you, you know your message, your words, your tone, like people are attracted to you based on who you are.

And it’s not the words that you say. It’s how you articulate what you say. It’s all. It’s all of it. It’s not just so you know whether people like it or not. I do think that we do see the whole person, when we hear someone talking, we feel them. So even though, they think they might have everything put together right, or whatnot.

I think subconsciously we are registering a lot more information when we hear people speak and whether somebody is a good fit for us or not, or whatever their mindset might be that they’re not sharing or all of that manifesting happens consciously and subconsciously all the time.

So you might as well spend some time with yourself. So turn off the step. Turn off

back. I love that. Turn off.

That’s exactly,

yeah.

I’m gonna come to you in a second, Jenny, but I just wanna No, you’re say, while you were saying all that, Michelle, I got two images in my head. Firstly, when you were talking about, stopping and looking at the scenery, I’m not a big train person, but I had this great image of being on a train where you’re either sitting in a tunnel and you are watching the lights go by.

Thinking you’re going in a million miles an hour, or you’re on a track where you’ve got beautiful scenery, that you’re looking out the window and enjoying what’s around and taking it in rather than just worrying about where the destination is. And at the same time, you were talking about as well, about the different, the different ways that people articulate themselves. Just popped into my head that famous Seinfeld episode where they talk about, these pretzels are making me thirsty, and they’re, different ways of delivering that line. And it’s, and it is like that in everyday life, right? It’s I’m sure that Seinfeld episode wasn’t meant to be philosophical, but it it stuck in my head when you were saying that.

Listen, I do think that life is a sitcom. Truly. If you sit back and look at how some of your weeks and some of your months and some of your years go, you get your humor on you, can see it. It’s very interesting. Very

well, at least in this particular sitcom we’ve been running for the last last 40 minutes at least.

We’ve had some real laughs instead of a laugh back so I’m enjoying that. Jenny, what about you? What are some tips that you want to get, want to deliver?

Yeah, I was actually gonna say, because even for myself, I realized when I started doing this work, I really didn’t know myself. I just had been going through life as like a chameleon, just.

Fitting into whatever environment I was in, conforming to what I was told to do, right? You go to school, you get your degree, you start your career, you do that for 40 years. Like I just, spent my life doing what I was told to do. So taking time away from all electronics and actually being with yourself and.

In a quiet place where you can connect and understand who you are because you are not the same as everybody else who’s on the internet. Each person is unique and different. So I think having that, because then you can protect yourself out there the way you’re meant to. And then when you go and have actual physical connections with people who are in your, local area like.

Maybe you could do more in-person sessions or seminars or whatever it might be if you’re a business owner, trying to do that, but also just with your family and your friends and having that time to be physically in the same space as somebody, but, and just putting the, maybe taking off your watches and all the notifications coming in at all times.

You feel like you have to respond immediately and allowing it to be for a little bit. Yeah.

Yeah, I know. I particularly come Friday afternoon at least until late Saturday night, I have all my devices off and I look forward to it and I tell everyone that I’m gonna be offline as well, so that way, I don’t come back to a mountain of emails or messages.

And it’s amazing how people hold off when you. Tell them that’s the space that you have to yourself and that I won’t be answering in that time. Just to wrap things up with both of you and I’ve so enjoyed this conversation. I like to ask all of my guests on the program this question, what’s the heart moment that people have when they come to work with you that you wish more people knew they were going to have?

In advance. What about you, Jenny? I’ll kick things off with you for starters.

Ooh, I wish there was just one that sounded really cocky. Sorry. But I think just understanding the power of our thoughts, like the true power that they have and that we’re emitting that power at all times, whether we are aware of it or not, but.

If I just sum it up.

No that’s great. What about you, Michelle?

I think it would be that they have the answer within them already. It’s

beautiful.

Yeah.

What a terrific way to end it. I’ve so enjoyed this conversation and this is again, one of the, one of the wonderful powers of the technology and the ability to connect, three of us who didn’t know each other before and have an amazing conversation that I know everyone listening in is gonna benefit hugely from we will of course keep all of the details in the show notes of how to get in touch with.

Both of you. But thank you so much for being a part of the program and as I said, really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks, Jenny. Thanks Michelle.

Awesome. Thank you so much. Thank you.

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